I didn't say that Tiger had affairs because his father died.  What I did say was that his anchor in golf was gone when his father died.  And how can we believe what any of these women say?  I, for one, have no ability to believe what a woman who is actively carrying on an affair with someone she knows is married is a trustworthy narrator for what went on.  I lived very near Tiger's home in Windemere, Fl and never heard any rumors about his womanizing prior to the Thanksgiving night incident.  I do know, however, that having a father who cheats on your mother isn't having a great role model as to what a husband and father are supposed to be -- granted, some men go the opposite way and are devoted to their familiesm but the major portion of them follow in their father's footsteps.   Having worked in the mental health industry for over 20 years, I can assure you of that.   Again, not making excuses for Tiger - he made his own choices and they were bad ones.  I do believe he started out as the strait laced fairway nerd - but as he got better looking and more famous, the temptations were out there as they are with all celebrities.  And there are not many of them who stay on the straight and narrow -- and that includes many of the former members and current members of the PGA. 

I guess I misunderstood you. I though you said his fall from grace began when he lost his dad. I knew that was not true based on what I had heard years ago.

Well -- it depends on what you hear and who you hear it from.  I have heard that his womanizing started when he began hanging out with Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley in Las Vegas.  Again, we will never know -- only Tiger knows what he did, when he did it and with whom he did it.  Nor will we know what his marriage was like because neither of them is going to talk about it.  Whatever happened happened --- doesn't lessen the fact that what he did did not warrant the amount of abuse he took from the media about it.  It was between him and his wife --- once again, he got battered for doing things that many former and current PGA champions have done and are still doing -- and there is a lot of stuff about the PGA that doesn't come out -- like what goes on in the portapotties on the golf course by the golfers.  That is my beef about this -- losing his marriage he deserved - difficult for a wife to forgive something like that -- but there is too much nonsense going on in the PGA to warrant the beating they gave him - especially TGC.  He didn't commit a murder, he didn't molest a child, he didn't force anybody to have sex with him, he didn't sell drugs -- he cheated on his wife - if all the men (and women) who cheat on their spouses were punished publicly the way this man was for such an unrelenting amount of time that is all there would be in the news.  We have had major politicians do these things and only warrant a few days or weeks in the media and we move on.  Why did they bombard this man for more than two years and still talk about it over and over and over?

Michael Jordan can not make Tiger or anyone else cheat on their spouse. Tiger did what he wanted to do. If Tiger did not approve of  Michael's behavior he would not have spent as much time with him and Charles. I think Michael and Tiger are still friends. I remember hearing that Michael Jordan was one of the many people who tried to warn Kobe against getting married. As far as we know he may have warned Tiger too. 
Charles may be on the fray with Tiger since he couldn't stop running his mouth in the media but, he seem like the Curly in that relationship. Tiger does what most athletes do not only PGA players. It has nothing to do with who they hang around it's about their own gratification.

As I said earlier I never drank the kool aid Tiger was selling and when the truth came out it confirmed what I heard years earlier. I don't drink the kool aid Tim Tebow is selling either even though he seems like a nice guy so it won't surprise me if he gets caught in some sort of sex scandal although the media won't beat it to death.

Once again, you are misinterpreting what I said - I never said Michael Jordan or Charles Barkley made Tiger do anything.  I only said I heard that it started when he started hanging around with them - could be true - could be untrue.  And, as my grandfather used to say - "You lay down with dogs and you are going to get fleas!".    And, I don't know why but the phrase "drank the kool-aid" kind of nauseats me -- reminds me of Jonestown.

Well if it started when he started hanging around Michael he had been doing for a long time. Tiger was hanging around Michael Jordan back in 97 after he won The Masters.

I know Earl said these things, but it was around the time of his book about Tiger and many other grandiose statements. This was many years before serious girlfriends. Earl took to Elin very quickly and they had an incredibly close relationship.

On Tiger's iconic status, I think the comparisons with both MJ and Kobe dwarf. Outside of the US, no one knows who Kobe is and while MJ certainly reached higher recognition than Kobe, it still does not compare to Tiger. This is in part because the world of global media changed drastically between MJ's prime and that of Tiger. Everyone around the world knows who Tiger is and it is just not the case for MJ.

In Europe, many people had the complete opposite gut reaction to the race of his wife. If it had been a black wife (or anyone with an uphill social battle), the "crime" would have been worse. No matter how sad they might have felt about what transpired, they knew that this woman from a well-established and accomplished family would come out OK. They knew that -- other than the emotional trauma -- she would not face social difficulties or struggle to find her place in life. This may not have been the case of a wife with a different social background or ethnicity. And the court of public opinion was right. 

 

Earl did not make those statements many years before Tiger had a serious girlfriend.  He made those statements during of after Joanna. As a matter of fact he made similar statements after Tiger got engaged to Elin. He said something about Tiger being to young and he should wait but, he later came around.

It's clear you don't know anything about sports outside of golf but, for years Michael Jordan was the undisputed most famous athlete on the planet and he still is one of the most famous athletes even though he's been retired for nearly a decade. These are the lines back in December of 2011 where people were waiting for Air Jordans. There photos are from two different cities.




You really are clueless if you think Kobe is only known within the US. Kobe's jersey along with Lebron's is the best selling jersey internationally. This was taken in China. He is swarmed everywhere in the world he goes.


China

Manila

ttp://bleacherreport.com/articles/82995-the-big-five-the-5-most-recognizable-athletes-in-sports-history

In Europe, many people had the complete opposite gut reaction to the race of his wife. If it had been a black wife (or anyone with an uphill social battle), the "crime" would have been worse. No matter how sad they might have felt about what transpired, they knew that this woman from a well-established and accomplished family would come out OK. They knew that -- other than the emotional trauma -- she would not face social difficulties or struggle to find her place in life. This may not have been the case of a wife with a different social background or ethnicity. And the court of public opinion was right. 

This has got to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever read. To assume that every black person comes from an "uphill social" background and could not survive the trauma of a public divorce is ignorant and insulting. To assume women with less resources are somehow weaker is idiotic.

Juanita Jordan comes from a middle class background. Juanita was and is more accomplished than Elin. She's educated, well spoken, and actually had a real job prior to marrying Michael Jordan and she's still active in her community through charities. She is not struggling to find her place in life. She has a career and status in her community.

Like Elin, Vanessa also comes from a middle class background and as far as I can see she is not struggling to find her place in life. She seems to have an idea of what direction of what she wants to go in after the divorce. Vanessa was a teenager when she and Kobe got married and she was 21 when he was accused of sexual assault. During that difficult time I don't remember her wilting under the scrutiny, talking to the media or, falling apart. She held her head high and they got through it for a while.

Yeah, well, there is not much point discussing with someone who cannot make an arguement without using words like "don't know anything", "clueless", "ignorant", etc.

 

About race, I just said that SHE would not face the social attitudes (that is so often brought up on this board). I did not say a word about what EVERY black woman is facing. You are the one who implied that those with black wifes received a different attitude. 

 

About Earl's statements, I remember them around the time of his book in 1997 and you may be right in that he could have said them later as well. But I know, for a fact, that he encouraged the engagement with Elin.

 

Of course, you could find anectdotal evidence of Kobe around basketball games. But basketball is not shown on TV in Europe and many other parts of the world. (I grew up playing basketball in Europe.) On a global scale, there is simply no comparison between the iconic status of Tiger and that of Kobe.

 

You DON'T know what you are talking about. You come here and make these matter of fact statements when there's no truth to what you're saying.

I did not imply anything about black women. I said Tiger would not have received the same fall out if his wife had been black. I used Michael Jordan as an example because he was someone who is as famous and used to partake in the same behavior during his marriage. When his wife filed for divorce it barely made the news even though it was well known Michael cheated throughout the marriage.
You can believe whatever makes you feel better when it comes to Earl's statements. I know what I heard.

The photos I posted were not from basketball games. The pictures were from appearances set up by Nike. Of course the NBA games are not shown in Europe which is further testimony of how global some of the NBA stars popularity is around the world. Basketball is a more popular sport globally than golf. Many European countries have basketball teams and many of the players end up playing in the NBA. I did not say Kobe was bigger than Tiger but, he is as well known around the world as Tiger. Most of Kobe's endorsements are from European countries since the sexual assault allegations.