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 Discussions initiated by users -  US economic slow down -which way to go?notify me whenever anyone posts in this discussionSubscribe  
 
From: SydMartin  Oct-11 2:49 pm 
To: lakshma  (388 of 403) 
 2724.388 in reply to 2724.387 

lakshma

It seems the US government is unwilling to prosecute those at the CEO level in their banking and financial system.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/08/news/economy/bear_stearns_cioffi/?postversion=2009100805

The EU governments have also been unwilling to prosecute.

For a group of priveledged individuals to be permitted to destroy progress (I read in an article that all gains in poverty reduction since the mid 1990's risk being wiped out by the financial crisis) on the Millenium Development Goals without consequences is becoming another crime in itself. One economist predicts the damage will be even far greater.

http://www.nuwireinvestor.com/blogs/investorcentric/2009/10/one-economists-argument-for-coming.html

Global civil society can no longer trust the financial systems, stock markets, the initiatives of global institutions and the persuits of their governments. In short, whatever an individual did for himself or herself based on the rules set by those in legal authority was taken away by an immoral and unethical group of individuals who manipulate the rules to their sole benefit. And now it is apparent this can all be done without consequence or, in other words, based on the absence of prosecutions, this immoral and unethical manipulation of the financial system is in fact 100% legal.

Has global civil society been exposed to such a level of lawlessness in the past 100 years? How should global civil society react given it has been placed in a situation of being helpless to do anything?

Syd Martin

 



Edited 10/11/2009 2:51 pm by SydMartin

Edited 10/11/2009 2:52 pm by SydMartin

Edited 10/11/2009 2:53 pm by SydMartin

Edited 10/12/2009 2:51 am by SydMartin

Edited 10/12/2009 3:36 pm by SydMartin
 
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From: lakshma  Oct-17 6:26 pm 
To: SydMartin  (389 of 403) 
 2724.389 in reply to 2724.388 

Law and morality is a fine difference in jurisprudence. all moral conduct is legal but not all legal conduct and law punishes only illegal conduct, not all immoral conduct if it otherwise not illegal. this applies in law court actions. therefore if the US or EU authorities have not found the immoral behavior of banking CEO as not violating any existing law, perhaps they are better advised not initiate any fruitless and expensive law suits or investigations.

This is what i was telling that except loud moralistic voices against the Banking CEO's as the real culprits of present crisis, there is proved case of illegal conduct by them and the main culprits are state regulators and legislators who have lacked the foresight and working of global economics and markets.

so the immoral or unethical manipulation of financial system could be 1oo% legal and here is a situation of that type perhaps! One has to blame law givers not law abiding citizens or entities.

 
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From: SydMartin  Oct-18 5:08 pm 
To: lakshma  (390 of 403) 
 2724.390 in reply to 2724.389 

lakshma

We therefore live in a world void of hope. Civil society now knows that its hard work can and will be erased by a system which rewards only those who are immoral (i.e. bankers and financiers) and with the full backing/support of legislators.

A sad reality of the world is that business now controls governance and social policy.

Syd Martin



Edited 10/18/2009 5:08 pm by SydMartin

Edited 10/21/2009 1:04 am by SydMartin
 
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From: MarshaCoyle  Oct-21 10:55 am 
To: SydMartin  (391 of 403) 
 2724.391 in reply to 2724.390 

In my opinion, free trade does not work very well for the US.  We have lost way too many manufacturing jobs to other countries (such as China) and many people I know are now working two to three jobs to make the salary they formerly made while working only one job.

China does not homor American patent/trademark/copyright laws so they have begun copying our technology and re-selling it for less.  They also don't have the same environmental/labor standards the US has which is contributing to this problem.

The US economy is falling apart because of free trade agreements which are unfair to the US.  This is also another reason why Americans need a public option included in their health care reform. 

I don't know the answer to the problem, but I know free trade is hurting working class America and something needs to be done SOON to level the playing field.  Do either of you have any ideas?

 

 
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From: SydMartin  Oct-21 5:38 pm 
To: MarshaCoyle  (392 of 403) 
 2724.392 in reply to 2724.391 

Some of the free trade agreements do benefit the US and other trade arrangements do not. Unfortunately, the trade imbalance between the US and China often allows a "broad brushed" negative remark against free trade agreements that the US has signed. The previous US administration supported the trade imbalance with China and this was/is a major contributor to the jobs lost in the US and the financial crisis as well.  So it is the US's trade under the WTO rules which does not work well for US citizens. I have no clear read if your current administration will correct this or not. This will depend if it works in the broader interests of its citizens.

In short, it is your government that has decided to increase unemployment in the US and not the doings of another country or countries.

If it is any consolation, we have the same problem in Canada. 

To summarize, the unemployed need to get their government to work for them and not against them. This is advice that can apply to citizens in numerous countries.

This article may be of interest to you.

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1018262.shtml

Syd Martin



Edited 10/21/2009 5:40 pm by SydMartin

Edited 10/21/2009 6:22 pm by SydMartin
 
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From: MarshaCoyle  Oct-21 10:02 pm 
To: SydMartin  (393 of 403) 
 2724.393 in reply to 2724.392 

I have faith that President Barack Obama will take steps to correct US trade policy problems with China.  He does have a few more BIGGER problems on his agenda right now, but I believe he will take some kind of corrective action before his administration ends.

In the meantime, if we can find some reslolutions that would help him correct the problem, I think this discussion board is a great place to discuss them!

 

 
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From: SydMartin  Oct-22 12:57 pm 
To: MarshaCoyle  (394 of 403) 
 2724.394 in reply to 2724.393 

There are 6 simple things which can be done that would help the US economy and its citizens.

1 - Work with other countries to establish global standards for the financial/banking sector in order to reduce the risk of another financial crisis. At a bare minimum, set domestic standards to protect US citizens.

2 - Prosecute CEO's of firms whose actions contributed to the financial crisis. This would go a long way to restoring confidence in global financial system and perhaps would restore faith internally in that US citizens will know the rule of law will be upheld.

3 - Abandon the idea of implementing the "cap and trade" tax program which is simply a scheme to reward/enrich those mentioned in 2 above. Look towards a simple VAT type carbon tax mechanism which compels global energy efficiency and reduces pollution. Also, countries' allowable emissions should be based on land area in order to know when the tax rate needs adjusting and to identify countries polluting over their allowable limits.

4 - Agressively persue countries which manipulate currency to gain a trade advantage.

5 - Agressively persue countries which subsidize their businesses to gain a trade advantage.

6 - Phase out US subsidies with a priority on eliminating those which undermine the development of poorer nations.

The timing to take the moral high ground  couldn't be better. Other countries should consider 1 through 6 as well.

Syd Martin



Edited 10/22/2009 1:00 pm by SydMartin
 
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From: MarshaCoyle  Oct-23 11:29 am 
To: SydMartin  (395 of 403) 
 2724.395 in reply to 2724.394 

Syd - Some of your suggestions are excellent and I will look into those and see what could be done.  Currently, our administration is preparing to legislate salary cuts (severe salary cuts) and caps on bonuses of the BIG banks that received a bailout earlier this year.  I have a feeling that will resolve the banking problem. 

Once again, I appreciate your ideas and if you think of anymore - keep them coming. - Marsha

 

 
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From: lakshma  Oct-26 7:37 pm 
To: MarshaCoyle  (396 of 403) 
 2724.396 in reply to 2724.395 

The illness connected to excessive executive pay and bonuses is connected to the deep rooted inconsistency that is developing between the private ownership of capital and control of public properties within the capitalism.

"No body to be a judge in his own case" is the fundamental principle in public life to control the private behavior. that principle is being violated in economic life of nations and global economic life.correction through law as a reform in this direction will substantially cure the defect and till then, it will resurrect in different forms not prohibited by law.

so far as free trade is concerned, your apprehension that it is working unfair to US is ill founded.Imagine that protectionism is the rule of the world, The riches of US will evaporate, as the main strength of US lies in trade and exchange with world and in its technical and institutional superiority over the other world.

 
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From: SydMartin  Oct-27 12:04 pm 
To: lakshma  (397 of 403) 
 2724.397 in reply to 2724.396 

lakshma

The following speaks well to bankers pay and acknowledges their failures.

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/716498--carney-reads-riot-act-to-bankers-blind-to-truth

It is obvious that a considerable number of banks had failures leading them in that public money was all that could save them from their bad decisions. And to this day, not one banker has been taken to task to defend these decisions before a court.

Syd Martin

 
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From: lakshma  Oct-27 2:57 pm 
To: SydMartin  (398 of 403) 
 2724.398 in reply to 2724.397 

My statement on executive pay and bonuses holds valid. what i was broadly talking about the reforms in capitalist practices through law in this globalization era is being spoken by Mr Carney whan he says this:

"The financial system," he said, "must transition itself from its self-appointed role as the apex of economic activity to once again be the servant of the real economy."

This transition from self appointed master to servant of the real economy needs global energy and regulation.It means a leap forward from decaying capitalism to rejuvenate with new life and energy.

 
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From: SydMartin  Oct-29 1:54 am 
To: lakshma  (399 of 403) 
 2724.399 in reply to 2724.398 

lakshma

It is interesting how deep the divisions are between countries.

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Autos/idUSTRE59R4HS20091028

Laissez-faire globalization under the "WTO rules based system" caused economic wars before the financial crisis and since the financial crisis, countries are escalating the intesity of these economic wars.  A failure leading to even greater failures is now becoming the result of WTO globalization.

It will be interesting (yet worrisome) to watch the actions of the various countries in their individual pursuits to win or simply survive the economic wars. It is now apparent that this mess cannot be cleaned up in a mutually beneficial way. There needs to be global losers to move forward.

Syd Martin



Edited 10/29/2009 1:55 am by SydMartin
 
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From: lakshma  Oct-31 6:02 pm 
To: SydMartin  (400 of 403) 
 2724.400 in reply to 2724.399 

economic and political divisions are the reality of today globalization.It is bound to be so. so also disputes among the countries as most of the economic development with limited resources operate in a zero sum game.only thing is that free trade would have brought this principle to the mutual advantage. but in absence of working of such principle, all is not well. there will be some thief and some losers. There are no global rules of fair game or rule of law and disputes are bound to crop and are bound to be resolved either through peacefully or other means.

china -America disputes over trade and currency valuation are a part of the game. not to be worried much unless it starts escalating to other countries.

 
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From: norsk3  Nov-6 12:45 pm 
To: SydMartin  (401 of 403) 
 2724.401 in reply to 2724.399 

Hi Syd

I am just an ordinary citizen,with a great fear of where the world is heading...I am deeply impressed by your many comments ...and almost totally agree with you.

I also think most right thinking folk around the world will read your comments on the global mess as i call it..and be nodding in agreement....

The only folk who can really do anything are the politicians??? and there popularity is without doubt at its lowest ebb...the majority of people

 simply do not believe nor trust them anymore..and likewise many of the worlds major orginisations...a very glum picture indeed.

and they only have there selves to blame for this situation! after the crash they all spoke of how they were going to rain in the banks and the greedy...of one of the greatest crimes in history!

and what do we get...after the dust settles....well Syd answered all that far more elequantly than i

shame on all governments...you may not live long enough to regret it

 
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From: SydMartin  Nov-15 12:36 pm 
To: lakshma  (402 of 403) 
 2724.402 in reply to 2724.400 

lakshma

I thought the writer's comments on the loss of trust in banks in the US could easily be expanded to globalization under the WTO rules:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-lazarus15-2009nov15,0,147308,full.column

The WTO rules based system has failed civil society repeatedly and has caused a thoroughly justified backlash towards globalization. Globalization is being blamed for civil society's problems and they're blame is correct.

It makes me wonder how many more failures global civil society must endure under the WTO rules before someone wakes up and realizes that drastic changes to the rules are needed to end the destruction. Continued resistence to regulate globalization so sustainable development is the genuine goal will be the death knell for globalization.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16096

Syd Martin



Edited 11/15/2009 12:37 pm by SydMartin

Edited 11/16/2009 12:15 pm by SydMartin
 
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From: lakshma  Nov-16 4:49 pm 
To: SydMartin  (403 of 403) 
 2724.403 in reply to 2724.402 

WTO is now a failed institution because of its inherent defects in structure. I was statig that there is no proof that bank bosses have blatently violated any exixiting law and recent court pronouncement that prosecution have failed to prove the bank bosses of any charges and now liability to be fixed as i was saying against the legislators, executive and other administrative bodies.

New banking regulation replacing the old agencies has not kept the global nature of problem and this new regulation may work against the national interests than serve it.

 
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