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| From: | KLATU | Oct-24 1:10 pm |
| To: | ALL |
(1 of 6) | | | | 4016.1 | |
To All,
I know that this subject is not new on this forum......Juan covered it fairly well sometime ago. However there seems to be new developments on this issue that folks ought to be aware of.
This article from Huffington Post explains whats going on. The original case was Santa Clara Vs. Southern Pacific Railway.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=118&invol=394
Kelly
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Did Thomas Jefferson think that Corporations Were People?
Washington, D.C. -- The Supreme Court has just finished hearing oral arguments about whether it should overturn 102 years of precedent and rule that corporations have the same right to spend money to influence elections that citizens possess. The Court stunned most observers back in June, when it asked for reargument in what seemed a small and narrow case: Citizens United v. the Federal Election Commission. At issue was whether the McCain-Feingold legislation, which banned corporate and union electioneering, also precluded a corporation from distributing a movie highly critical of a political candidate (in this case, Hilary Clinton). That's hardly an earth-shattering question, except to those involved. But in asking for reargument in that case, the Court invited the publisher of the movie to make the case that Congress did not have the authority to limit corporate political expenditure, even though as far back as 1902, and as recently as 2006, the Court had upheld that authority. Since the conclusion of the oral arguments, media coverage has focused on Chief Justice Roberts, who seems likely to be the swing vote. The four most liberal justices have made it pretty clear that they may not think Congress intended to ban making a movie, but they think corporate political expenditures of other sorts can be limited. However, three of the conservative justices (Scalia, Thomas, and Alito) plus usual swing voter Anthony Kennedy appear ready to open the floodgates to corporate dominance of political discourse. The appeal being made to Roberts is that in his confirmation hearing he took a strong stand that the Court should not lightly overturn its own precedents. He presented himself as an incrementalist, a justice opposed to big changes in direction. You can argue whether Roberts has actually lived up to his judicial-restraint packaging, but a huge effort is underway to persuade him, in this case, to do so. Thus, in addition to a New York Times editorial urging a narrow ruling, the Times piled on Roberts with an op-ed by Jeffrey Rosen arguing that how Roberts handles this case would determine whether he goes down in history as another Chief Justice Marshall, Roberts's stated role model, or instead as a new Earl Warren, the chief justice whom conservatives demonize for judicial overreach. It's true that judicial restraint ought to lead Roberts to a narrow ruling in this case rather than overturning a century of precedent. But what's striking is that no one is challenging the three most conservative justices -- yet it's their position on this case that's most contrary to their self-declared judicial philosophies. For Alito, Scalia, and Thomas are "originalists" -- justices who claim that it is not previous Supreme Court precedent that should govern, but instead the intentions and understanding of those who drafted the Constitution (and its amendments). But the Citizens United case brings into stark focus the great, huge buzzing fly in the ointment of the originalists: They don't believe their own doctrine, not even vaguely. And as far as I can tell, this is almost universally true of those who wear the originalist banner. Here's the problem: If you want to throw out what the originalists call "judge-made law" (interpretations of the Constitution that its drafters did not intend), then you don't get to throw out just Roe v. Wade on abortion, Baker vs. Carr on apportioning state legislatures, and Miranda on defendant's rights. You cannot board originalism like a trolley, ride it through the cases you don't like, and then get off back in 1953, when Earl Warren joins the Court, or even back in 1935, when the Court begins taking a more expansive view of Congressional authority to regulate interstate commerce. No, if you want to argue originalism, you must also throw out all the judge-made law of the last half of the 19th century, too. And it is the cases of that era --cases that established that corporations have rights like individuals -- that Alito, Scalia, and Thomas are relying on to make their case for throwing out Congressional regulation of corporate political spending. The key decision came in 1886, in Santa Clara County vs. Southern Pacific Railway. At the start of the case, the Chief Justice announced that the Court would not even hear arguments about whether the 14th amendment, guaranteed equal rights to all citizens, included corporations -- the Court simply declared that it did. In doing to, it ignored the well-established legal doctrine that once a state gave a corporation a privilege it constituted a contract that must be honored but also that the specific privileges granted came with its charter and did not extend beyond it. Now this was judge-made law with a vengeance. It utterly upset the small-holder character of the original Constitution, with its deeply ingrained mistrust of corporations and other large economic institutions. But even after these cases, the Courts continued to rule that Congress and the states had the right to regulate some corporate political spending. (Indeed, in a 1978 case that restricted the right to limit corporate spending on ballot measures, Chief Justice Rehnquist dissented specifically because he did not feel that corporations were persons for purposes of political speech.) Now what faces the Court in Citizens United v. the FEC is an effort to complete the judge-made revolution that begin in Santa Clara. Corporations would be granted not only the special privileges of their status (immortality, limited liability, protection from most criminal sanctions) but also the full range of political privileges of American citizens. And Alito, Scalia, and Thomas don't acknowledge this enormous incompatibility with their purported judicial doctrine, and few in the media have challenged them on it. (Briefs have been filed with the Suprem ...[Message truncated]
Edited 10/24/2009 1:41 pm ET by KLATU |
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| From: | KLATU | Oct-24 1:16 pm |
| To: | ALL |
(2 of 6) | | | | 4016.2 in reply to 4016.1 | |
Abolish Corporate Personhood
Molly Morgan and Jan Edwards
The history of the United States could be told as the story of who is and who is not a person under law. Women, poor people, slaves, and even corporations had long been considered persons for purposes of following the law. This is because early laws were written “No person shall . . .” Corporate lawyers had tried to avoid these laws by claiming corporations were not persons and therefore not required to follow the law. So it was decided that for purposes of following the law, corporations were persons. This allowed corporations to sue and be sued in court among other things. But corporations were not persons with rights in the law, and neither were women, slaves, indentured servants, or poor people. We know some of the ongoing story of human beings' struggle to gain the rights of persons under law, but how did corporations gain these rights?
To understand the phenomenon of corporate personhood, we start by looking at the foundation of US law, the Constitution. This document was written by 55 gentlemen cleverly described by one historian as “the well-bred, the well-fed, the well-read, and the well-wed.” As some of the wealthiest, most privileged people in the new country, they were highly aware that their power had everything to do with how much property they owned — land, crops, buildings, personal goods, and, for most of them, property in the form of human beings, their slaves. As some of the best-educated men in the world, at least by European standards, they also knew a lot about democracy, and they understood what a threat the real thing represented to their personal power. The kind of democracy they prized and wrote about so eloquently could only be practiced by people like them — certainly not by the rabble. Many of them wrote and spoke at length about the inability of the common people to be self-governing.
So the word “democracy” appears nowhere in the Constitution. What they created was a republic designed to protect property, not people. This didn't play very well with many people in the new United States — at least half of the population was very much opposed to the Constitution. They could see how much power it would take away from them, how much it would compromise the democratic ideals in the Declaration of Independence, and they wanted no part of it. But the Federalists who proposed the Constitution had the finances and the unity to promote their ideas strongly. After a lot of politicking they got the Constitution ratified — but only with the assurance that a Bill of Rights would be added to protect people from the abuses by the government that would be possible under the new system. So let's look at the basic structure they created to protect property.
The Constitution only mentions two entities: We the People and the government. The people are on one side of a line, and we are sovereign and have individual rights. On the other side of the line is the government, which is accountable to the people and has specific duties to perform to the satisfaction of the people. We delegate some of our power to the government in order to perform tasks we want government to do. In a representative democracy, this system should work just fine.
The problem is that the phrase “We the People” is not defined in the Constitution. In 1787, in order to be considered one of “We the People” and have rights in the Constitution, you had to be an adult male with white skin and a certain amount of property. (The states determined who could vote; some states had religious restrictions.) At the time of the Constitution, this narrowed “We the People” down to about 10% of the population. Those who owned property, including human property, were very clear that this was rule by the minority — and that's the way they wanted it.
So here is the first definition of who gets to be a person in the United States. Ninety percent of the people — all the immigrants, indentured servants, slaves, minors, Native Americans, women, and people who don't own property (the poor) — are, legally, not persons. They were not persons with rights, but were persons for following the law. They're like subhumans. The law didn't label people this way in so many words — which is part of the brilliance of the system and why it's lasted so long — but the net effect was clear. By allowing only wealthy, white males to be “persons,” a class system was put in place.
Those who could vote in the republic were able to elect people for the House of Representatives. So the United States held within its republican form the possibility of democracy. More human beings could become part of We the People. And they did. It was not easily won, but eventually all adult citizens became legal persons.
Without using the words “slave” or “slavery,” the Constitution ensures that even if slaves get to free soil, their status as property remains the same. This is just one of the clauses defining property in the Constitution. It also defines contracts, labor, commerce, money, copyright, and war as the province of the federal government. So the Constitution, the foundation of all US law, was not written to protect people — it was written to protect property. The Constitution does contain some protection for people in Section 9, but the Bill of Rights is the concentration of rights for We the People.
Most people believe that the Constitution — specifically, the Bill of Rights — guarantees our rights to freedom of speech, religion, and press, to peaceably assemble, and so forth. People of all political stripes say this. But the truth is, it does no such thing. Almost all of our constitutional protections are expressed as the absence of a negative rather than the presence of a positive. So the First Amendment, for example, does not say, “All citizens are guaranteed the right to free speech”; it only says, “Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech . . .” The First Amendment just restricts the government from specific encroachments; it doesn't guarantee anything. This was not a concern for the people because they had strong bills of rights in their state constitutions, and at that time, the states had more power than the federal government. The US Constitution allowed slavery throughout the United States, for example, but it was each state's constitution that created free or slave states. Over time, however, the states have lost power to the federal government. The federal laws are now usually ruled to supercede the states' laws. The federal Bill of Rights is where we look to protect our freedoms. The lack of positive protection of these rights weakens them greatly.
If those rights were actually guaranteed in the Constitution, people could, for example, take the Bill of Rights into the workplace, but we can't. Anyone who thinks workers have free speech while they're on corporate property should ask the workers or talk to a union organizer. Because corporations are property, and because the Constitution protects property rights above all, most people have to abandon the Bill of Rights in order to make a living. The way different groups of people — like African Americans and women — have, one by one, acquired rights and become persons under the law is by getting protection f...[Message truncated] |
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| From: | Juan | Oct-24 10:53 pm |
| To: | KLATU |
(3 of 6) | | | | 4016.3 in reply to 4016.1 | |
Hi Kel,
Thank you for both of these articles. They sum up all I've attempted to crudely say.
As I read the comments at Huff Post, they show a dire need for your 2nd post to be disseminated as widely as possible amongst We-the-SubHumans.
Free Healthcare and Education for the Nation of Iraq but the health and education of American Subhumans are viewed as profit generating commodies in the U.S??? This is enough of an incentive to work for an amendment to be added to the Constitution outlawing Corporate Personhood, alone. Now to address T.Jefferson's question; Anything Human, that's allegedly God created, are legally and otherwise, Persons, Citizens, citizens, etc. This IMO, is what the Law of the Land would of morphed into without Corporate Personhood. There should be no doubt of Jefferson's feelings back then, when he lable this Corporate class as Tyrants, fit only to provide part of the irregation for the tree of Liberty. He left no doubt, either, about the Banking ie Corporation;
"In such a nation [as ours], there is one and one only resource for loans, sufficient to carry them through the expense of a war; and that will always be sufficient, and in the power of an honest government, punctual in the preservation of its faith. The fund I mean, is the mass of circulating coin. Everyone knows, that although not literally, it is nearly true, that every paper dollar emitted banishes a silver one from the circulation. A nation, therefore, making its purchases and payments with bills fitted for circulation, thrusts an equal sum of coin out of circulation. This is equivalent to borrowing that sum, and yet the vendor receiving payment in a medium as effectual as coin for his purchases or payments, has no claim to interest. And so the nation may continue to issue its bills as far as its wants require, and the limits of the circulation will admit... But this, the only resource which the government could command with certainty, the States have unfortunately fooled away, nay corruptly alienated to swindlers and shavers, under the cover of private banks." --Thomas Jefferson to John W. Eppes, 1813. ME 13:274
"One of three great measures necessary to insure us permanent prosperity... should insure resources of money by the suppression of all paper circulation during peace, and licensing that of the nation alone during war. The metallic medium of which we should be possessed at the commencement of a war, would be a sufficient fund for all the loans we should need through its continuance; and if the national bills issued be bottomed (as is indispensable) on pledges of specific taxes for their redemption within certain and moderate epochs, and be of proper denominations for circulation, no interest on them would be necessary or just, because they would answer to everyone the purposes of the metallic money withdrawn and replaced by them." --Thomas Jefferson to William H. Crawford, 1816. ME 15:30
"It would be best that our medium should be so proportioned to our produce, as to be on a par with that of the countries with which we trade, and whose medium is in a sound state." --Thomas Jefferson to John W. Eppes, 1813. ME 13:430 |
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| From: | Juan | Oct-24 11:01 pm |
| To: | KLATU |
(4 of 6) | | | | 4016.4 in reply to 4016.1 | |
Hi Kel, Me agan,
As a subhuman, why am I liable for the debts initiated to fight a war to spread corporate power, that I don't want or asked for?
The Juanster |
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| | | | | 4016.5 in reply to 4016.2 | |
Hey Kel,
Latching on to your post is this tidbit of interest;
http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/greenrights/6235.html
Corporate Personhood, in it's present form, is definitely Detrimental to the Health of the American Sub-Human. This is a movement I can really get behind and support. Is there a contact link for this site? I want to pass this on and see if they might by up for an appearence on Amy Goodman's show Democracy Now.
The Juanster
Edited 10/25/2009 1:56 am ET by Juan |
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| From: | KLATU | Oct-25 10:24 am |
| To: | Juan |
(6 of 6) | | | | 4016.6 in reply to 4016.3 | |
Hi Juan,
I'm gonna play obtuse and dumb here. Partially because I only superficially understand the significance of the importance of using precious metals as a medium of exchange.
Is there a way you can summarize for the rest of us in your own words why it is that important. I know its probably a complex subject.
One of the things I do understand for the non-use of metals as an exchange medium is that they are impractical as far as movement and carriage is concerned. Its far more economical to move a trillion dollars from one bank to another if its in the form of $10,000.00 bills than if it is in extremely heavy gold bullion.
We now use electrons to transfer balances from one place to another. I just think that so long as we (and when I say we I mean all people world wide who use paper money and electronic money) all agree to a medium of exchange then whats the problem?
I know that the real bottom line as to what makes any medium of exchange valuable is the human ....or if you like....the subhuman labor that backs up all monetary value. Granted that part of the chain is material goods but human labor is still behind all of that too.
It seems to me that the only thing that trully makes money have any value is its constant flow. That when it is horded in any fashion the economy collapses. Would you call those who hold billions of dollars horders? I would if thier money is not in constant flow. However it is us the subhumans who are told to be good little consumers and get out there and spend spend spend. Then we get chided by finacial experts for not saving enough.
Its enough to make you crazy. folks don't know if they are a foot or horseback.
Kelly |
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