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From: Juan  Oct-8 12:23 pm 
To: ALL  (1 of 11) 
 4002.1 
  After all of our blood and treasure we've had invested in Iraq for us, in the past eight years by the former U.S.government administration, to establish a stable Democratic government and a viable constitution, that emulates our own(up to a point) in Iraq, I discovered these articles in their Constitution that our money  created which makes me feel that the Iraqi people are more deserving of universal healthcare than We the People, as I listen to the debates in both houses of CongressFrom the text of the Iraqi Constitution:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/12/AR2005101201450.html

Article 30:

First: The state guarantee to the individual and the family -- especially children and women -- social and health security and the basic requirements for leading a free and dignified life. The state also ensures the above a suitable income and appropriate housing.

Second: The State guarantees the social and health security to Iraqis in cases of old age, sickness, employment disability, homelessness, orphanage or unemployment, and shall work to protect them from ignorance, fear and poverty. The State shall provide them housing and special programs of care and rehabilitation. This will be organized by law.

Article 31:

First: Every citizen has the right to health care. The state takes care of public health and provide the means of prevention and treatment by building different types of hospitals and medical institutions.

Second: Individuals and institutions may build hospitals or clinics or places for treatment with the supervision of the state and this shall be regulated by law.

Article 32:

The State cares for the handicapped and those with special needs and ensure their rehabilitation in order to reintegrate them into society. This shall be regulated by law.

Article 33:

First: Every individual has the right to live in a safe environment.

Second: The State undertakes the protection and preservation of the environment and biological diversity.

Article 34:

First: Education is a fundamental factor in the progress of society and is a right guaranteed by the state. Primary education is mandatory and the state guarantees to eradicate illiteracy.

Second: Free education is a right for all Iraqis in all its stages.

When other perspectives are considered, the legality of this constitution comes into play; "Did the U.S. Intervention in the Iraqi Constitution Help Make It Illegal?" http://deafwalls.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/did-the-us-intervention-in-the-iraqi-constitution-help-make-it-illegal/

The Juanster

 
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From: 19326992 judith  Oct-8 9:25 pm 
To: Juan  (2 of 11) 
 4002.2 in reply to 4002.1 

Verrrrrrrrrry interesting! I'm digesting your post.

Judith

 
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From: Juan  Oct-8 11:24 pm 
To: 19326992 judith  (3 of 11) 
 4002.3 in reply to 4002.2 

Hi "J",

Let me emulcify this. This Iraqi Constitution is the direct result of the Bush Administration's decision to invade that country. Since it was written at the behest and coercion of our government, the articles I highlighted; should blow holes in every argument currently arising out of both houses of congress regarding Healthcare and Education.

  The question no one seems to want the answer to in Washington, is whether We-The-People of the United States deserve (at least), a health and education system that's as good as the one the U.S. Gov. designed and placed in the Iraqi Constitution fot the people of Iraq..

  IMHO, a national poll should ask this question of all the Congress critter's that voted to give Bush the power to attack Iraq.  This Iraqi Constitution was/is being paid for with our and our children's  bloody Tax dollars. The articles it contains regarding health and education is proof, that the right thing to do for the people of any Nation by it's rulers, was included in this document by the U.S. Gov. Don't we-the-people merit at least as much consideration from the U.S.creators of this Iraqi document? Why do we have to plead, beg, threaten to riot, to get anyone to listen? We Need That Poll!

luv ya,

The Juanster

 
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From: 888  Oct-9 9:37 pm 
To: Juan  (4 of 11) 
 4002.4 in reply to 4002.3 

EXCELLENT, JUANSTER!

XOXO
KATH

 
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From: Juan  Oct-10 10:54 am 
To: 888  (5 of 11) 
 4002.5 in reply to 4002.4 

Hey Kath,

How do you feel about asking this question via a nationwde poll?

"Should The American People Have Access To A Health and Educaton System That's As Good As The One We Designed and Installed In The Iraqi Constitution?"

 

The Juanster

PS- This is where the rubber meets the road, would't you say? We should get sometihng out of this Bush engineered deal, don't you think?



Edited 10/10/2009 10:55 am ET by Juan
 
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From: Juan  Oct-10 12:01 pm 
To: 888  (6 of 11) 
 4002.6 in reply to 4002.4 

Hey Kath, can you think of a better place to rock the boat than this?

http://interactive.zogby.com/fuse/messageview.cfm?catid=24&threadid=32788

XoXoXo

YKW(you know who)

 
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From: Juan  Oct-11 2:29 am 
To: 888  (7 of 11) 
 4002.7 in reply to 4002.4 
I sent this to Kelly, you might not of seen it. But think of this; The land grants given to a select few to colonize this land by the King of Great Britian, created a dire need for cheap labor. Guess where it was gotten from? The descendants of these unfortunates are those of us today viewed as undeserving of the largeese of this nation that was used as a Penal Colony to house these British Emmigrants in Bondage. 

   I've been researching the source of the mindset of why some in this nation or viewed as undeserving of healthcare and education. You'll be surprised at what I found. This supports the information found in "They were White but They Were Slaves" by Michael Hoffman. http://www.revisionisthistory.org/forgottenslaves.html

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=268

Within this Nation of immigrants, there's a caste system stemming from those elites of the King, who looked upon dissidents and prisoners of war and other miscreants as less deserving of the Englsh society's humane treatment; to wit, From: The Complete Book of Emigrants in Bondage, 1614-1775 "Between 1614 and 1775 some 50,000 English men, women, and children were sentenced by judicial process to be sent to the American colonies for a variety of crimes." http://www.genealogical.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&ref=1000&item_number=1098

  What this mindset has morphed into is the view that, all who are the descendants of convicts and slaves and any other micreants, their healthcare should be provided by the grave. IOW, when this group is nolonger productive, Death should be their only option.

  This opinion was voiced on the WashingtonJournal@7am Sept. 16,2009. When the majority of us that fights the wars, pay the taxes, and assumes the responsibility for this governments deficits, is there any excuse that can be put forth to justify what these elites are doing to us? See why An Iraqi is viewed as more deserving than the average Joe-sixpack here in the U.S.? We, at least should have a health and educational system as good as what an Iraqi citizen enjoys.

 


Edited 10/11/2009 2:37 am ET by Juan
 
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From: Juan  Oct-11 3:01 am 
To: 888  (8 of 11) 
 4002.8 in reply to 4002.7 

This is an excerpt from the book I mentioned and should give you a good idea of the source of this selfish mindset we see oozing out of Congress;

The Campaign for Radical Truth in History http://www.hoffman-info.com

P.O. Box 849, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho 83816

The following article is a brief synopsis of the extensive research found in Michael A. Hoffman II's ground-breaking history book, "They Were White and They Were Slaves," which may be ordered from our

online bookstore


The Forgotten Slaves: Whites in Servitude in Early America and Industrial Britain

White children enslaved in a mine in 19th century England. The two on the left are virtually naked. Children of both sexes worked in this manner.


by Michael A. Hoffman II ©Copyright 1999. All Rights Reserved

Two years ago, Prime Minister Paul Keating of Australia refused to show "proper respect" to Britain's Queen Elizabeth II during her state visit. In response, Terry ####, a Conservative member of the British Parliament said, "It's a country of ex-convicts, so we should not be surprised by the rudeness of their prime minister."

A slur such as this would be considered unthinkable if it were uttered against any other class or race of people except the descendants of White slavery. ####' remark is not only offensive, it is ignorant and false. Most of Australia's "convicts" were shipped into servitude for such "crimes" as stealing seven yards of lace, cutting trees on an aristocrat's estate or poaching sheep to feed a starving family.

The arrogant disregard for the holocaust visited upon the poor and working class Whites of Britain by the aristocracy continues in our time because the history of that epoch has been almost completely extirpated from our collective memory.

When White servitude is acknowledged as having existed in America, it is almost always termed as temporary "indentured servitude" or part of the convict trade, which, after the Revolution of 1776, centered on Australia instead of America. The "convicts" transported to America under the 1723 Waltham Act, perhaps numbered 100,000.

The indentured servants who served a tidy little period of 4 to 7 years polishing the master's silver and china and then taking their place in colonial high society, were a minuscule fraction of the great unsung hundreds of thousands of White slaves who were worked to death in this country from the early l7th century onward.

Up to one-half of all the arrivals in the American colonies were Whites slaves and they were America's first slaves. These Whites were slaves for life, long before Blacks ever were. This slavery was even hereditary. White children born to White slaves were enslaved too.

Whites were auctioned on the block with children sold and separated from their parents and wives sold and separated from their husbands. Free Black property owners strutted the streets of northern and southern American cities while White slaves were worked to death in the sugar mills of Barbados and Jamaica and the plantations of Virginia.

The Establishment has created the misnomer of "indentured servitude" to explain away and minimize the fact of White slavery. But bound Whites in early America called themselves slaves. Nine-tenths of the White slavery in America was conducted without indentures of any kind but according to the so-called "custom of the country," as it was known, which was lifetime slavery administered by the White slave merchants themselves.

In George Sandys laws for Virginia, Whites were enslaved "forever." The service of Whites bound to Berkeley's Hundred was deemed "perpetual." These accounts have been policed out of the much touted "standard reference works" such as Abbott Emerson Smith's laughable whitewash, Colonists in Bondage.

I challenge any researcher to study 17th century colonial America, sifting the documents, the jargon and the statutes on both sides of the Atlantic and one will discover that White slavery was a far more extensive operation than Black enslavement. It is when we come to the 18th century that one begins to encounter more "servitude" on the basis of a contract of indenture. But even in that period there was kidnapping of Anglo-Saxons into slavery as well as convict slavery.

In 1855, Frederic Law Olmsted, the landscape architect who designed New York's Central Park, was in Alabama on a pleasure trip and saw bales of cotton being thrown from a considerable height into a cargo ship's hold. The men tossing the bales somewhat recklessly into the hold were Negroes, the men in the hold were Irish.

Olmsted inquired about this to a shipworker. "Oh," said the worker, "the niggers are worth too much to be risked here; if the Paddies are knocked overboard or get their backs broke, nobody loses anything."

Before British slavers traveled to Africa's western coast to buy Black slaves from African chieftains, they sold their own White working class kindred ("the surplus poor" as they were known) from the streets and towns of England, into slavery. Tens of thousands of these White slaves were kidnapped children. In fact the very origin of the word kidnapped is kid-nabbed, the stealing of White children for enslavement.

According to the English Dictionary of the Underworld, under the heading kidnapper is the following definition: "A stealer of human beings, esp. of children; originally for exportation to the plantations of North America."

The center of the trade in child-slaves was in the port cities of Britain and Scotland:

"Press gangs in the hire of local merchants roamed the streets, seizing 'by force such boys as seemed proper subjects for the slave trade.' Children were driven in flocks through the town and confined for shipment in barns...So flagrant was the practice that people in the countryside about Aberdeen avoided bringing children into the city for fear they might be stolen; and so widespread was the collusion of merchants, shippers, suppliers and even magistrates that the man who exposed it was forced to recant and run out of town." (Van der Zee, Bound Over, p. 210).

White slaves transported to the colonies suffered a staggering loss of life in the 17th and 18th century. During the voyage to America it was customary to keep the White slaves below deck for the entire nine to twelve week journey. A White slave would be confined to a hole not more than sixteen feet long, chained with 50 other men to a board, with padlocked collars around their necks. The weeks of confinement below deck in the ship's stifling hold often resulted in outbreaks of contag...[Message truncated]
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From: KLATU  Oct-23 9:07 pm 
To: Juan  (9 of 11) 
 4002.9 in reply to 4002.8 

Juan,

I was just wondering if you knew anything about Michael A Hoffman. More over I wonder if the rest of the forum has any interest in who he is.

This is what I found. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_A._Hoffman_II

 
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From: Juan  Oct-23 11:23 pm 
To: KLATU  (10 of 11) 
 4002.10 in reply to 4002.9 

Hi Kel,

  Yes I know he's a white separatist, but the jist of what he's alledging is supported by so many others who aren't of his stripe.  I pulled up the history of the "Diggers" , The Levellers, and the Roundheads and found that this group made up the majority of the people protesting against the God-given rights of Kings. Along with the demise of the fuedal system, the Elites that owned the land were without the human resources to make it produce as a result of this.

  As I highlighted in my previous post The recipients of the King's land grants were those who were indebted to him and the other creditors, not the Black and White peope who arrived  here in bondage or their descendants.

  Hoffman as a colective OTOH, ignores the perpetrators of his continued misery. [WE-the-People] at the time of it's inception was never meant to embrace those who arrived on these shores in bondage.

The Juanster

 
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