General Eagles discussion -  $timulus $ will create 2000 Chinese jobsnotify me whenever anyone posts in this discussionSubscribe  
 
From: moondust  Nov-6 8:37 am 
To: ALL  (1 of 99) 
 105205.1 


http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/schumer-seeks-to-block-stimulus-funds-for-chinese-backed-texas-wind-farm/

Texas wind farm project will buy the wind turbines from China, creating 2000 jobs in China. $450 million in stimulus money goes to China. Schumer trying to block the deal(good for him).

We will get a couple hundred jobs over here out of the project. Also, China continues to steer their own projects to Chinese only companies. Sounds like a great return on investment for the American taxpayer doesn't it?

No wonder unemployment is 10%.

 
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From: Chris54s  Nov-6 9:19 am 
To: moondust  (2 of 99) 
 105205.2 in reply to 105205.1 

So you think the free market system is wrong? Capitalism is bad?

Protectionist?

"No wonder unemployment is 10%"

Thank GW for that.



Edited 11/6/2009 9:20 am ET by Chris54s
 
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From: TedZep  Nov-6 10:08 am 
To: moondust  (3 of 99) 
 105205.3 in reply to 105205.1 

You can also thank Wal-mart and companies of its ilk that sell nothing but cheap, crappy Chinese goods. You can blame the American people for buying nothing but cheap, crappy Chinese goods. You can blame the American workers for refusing to work for pennies a day, thus making sure there are cheap Chinese goods. You can blame the Chinese government's protectionist product keeping decent American goods away from Chinese consumers (who couldn't afford them anyway.)

If there was an American firm that could provide the turbines at, well, not even similar cost, but within the ball park, then the story would be outrageous. That there isn't an American company able to provide the turbines is outrageous.

Americans have sadly become a bunch of consumers who can't afford to buy locally partly because unions have inflated the cost of too many domestic products and mostly because corporate greed has outsourced jobs to countries were the workers have no protection.

We need a middle ground.

 
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From: wpr1198  Nov-6 11:04 am 
To: moondust  (4 of 99) 
 105205.4 in reply to 105205.1 
I agree with you here moondust. These are projects to create U.S. jobs and also help reduce our dependence on foreign energy. Why are we outsourcing the equipment to make the project work? It seems like a half-arse attempt at implementing stimulus money.
 
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From: parkwood  Nov-6 11:17 am 
To: TedZep unread  (5 of 99) 
 105205.5 in reply to 105205.3 

I would not say it is coroporate greed that caused outsourcing but rather the responsibilities to the shareholders to maximize share price. I am not a fan of outsourcing but until there is an incentive to keep jobs in the U.S> this is going to happen. Rather than punish there should be a corporate tax advantage to internaitonal companies based in the U.S. who do not outsource.
When a company like HP can hire a room full of tech support in India for the same price as hiring two guys in the U.S. they would be idiots not to do it. Matter of fact who would want to invest in a company that throws money away like that? not me.
Capital investment flows to where it is cheapest.

What the corps are doing is no different than a company solely based in the U.S. that decides to set up shop in Delaware rather than NY because the pricve of living is cheaper and they can therefore pay their employees a lower wage.

 
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From: PHILLYTERP85  Nov-6 1:05 pm 
To: moondust  (6 of 99) 
 105205.6 in reply to 105205.1 

I'm not the biggest fan of the stimulus package. However, companies outsourcing things to foreign nations is nothing new.

What if instead of a stimulus package, we used that money and gave everyone in america a tax cut (something that the likes of Hannity and others have said). What then? Would you make some sort of requirement that any money used from tax cuts has to be used on products that are 100% made in america?

How about the fact that there are foreign companies in the US that use more US made products than their US counterparts? Like Toyota for one example.

 
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From: EmCane  Nov-6 3:48 pm 
To: Chris54s  (7 of 99) 
 105205.7 in reply to 105205.2 

I know you aren't dumb, so you must be confused. How is spending $450M in federal tax dollars "capitalism”? This is not "free market" activity but government investment. Why should the US government invest in Chinese companies?

GWB inherited a similar situation, where the country was entering into a recession. He lowered taxes, put more money in everyone's pocket and stopped unemployment at a peak of 6.5%. Obama promised that the rate would stay below 8% if the $780B stimulus bill was passed. We are now at 10.2%. The unemployment rate has increased almost 50% since Obama has taken office. The blame bush stuff is tired and untrue. The current economic situation is on Obama and the Democrats. They thought the government knew how to spend better then the private sector. Didn't work before, won't work now.



Edited 11/6/2009 3:51 pm ET by EmCane
 
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From: mervmanva  Nov-6 3:57 pm 
To: parkwood  (8 of 99) 
 105205.8 in reply to 105205.5 

<<<I am not a fan of outsourcing but until there is an incentive to keep jobs in the U.S> this is going to happen.>>>

yup

 
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From: mervmanva  Nov-6 4:00 pm 
To: TedZep unread  (9 of 99) 
 105205.9 in reply to 105205.3 

<<<You can also thank Wal-mart and companies of its ilk that sell nothing but cheap, crappy Chinese goods. You can blame the American people for buying nothing but cheap, crappy Chinese goods. You can blame the American workers for refusing to work for pennies a day, thus making sure there are cheap Chinese goods. You can blame the Chinese government's protectionist product keeping decent American goods away from Chinese consumers (who couldn't afford them anyway.)>>>

tariffs....we just don't use them in our favor.

No reason for cheaper international goods to be on our shelves or showroom floors.

And if you outsource labor...that branch of your business should be taxed heavily.

 
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From: moondust  Nov-6 4:06 pm 
To: Chris54s  (10 of 99) 
 105205.10 in reply to 105205.2 

This isn't about free market or capitalism or protectionism chief. It is about the way the Stimulus money is being spent. We were told it was for "shovel ready" projects. LOL.

And dude, with the continual W rants....dude that argument is so over. Didn't Tuesday's elections teach you anything?

 
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From: moondust  Nov-6 4:07 pm 
To: TedZep unread  (11 of 99) 
 105205.11 in reply to 105205.3 
I agree with you on alot of this, but you are missing the point of the thread. Stay on point...this is about the way the Stimulus dollars are being spent and why unemployment is now over 10%.
 
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From: moondust  Nov-6 4:10 pm 
To: wpr1198 unread  (12 of 99) 
 105205.12 in reply to 105205.4 
Yes it is half-arse, worse than half-arse. That Stimulus money the taxpayers are putting up should only be reserved for jobs on our soil. That is not being a protectionist, it is about wisely spending excessive tax dollars to put Americans back to work. Instead, the Chinese lobbyists have our politicians' attention....a big F U to the American taxpayer once again.
 
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From: moondust  Nov-6 4:12 pm 
To: PHILLYTERP85  (13 of 99) 
 105205.13 in reply to 105205.6 
I get all your points. My point of the thread is the irresponsible use of the Economic Stimulus package tax dollars....the thing was a sham from the get-go. Exposing it as such, with an example like this, sending dollars to put Chinese to work, can only help expose the criminals in D.C.(both parties).
 
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From: mervmanva  Nov-6 4:13 pm 
To: moondust  (14 of 99) 
 105205.14 in reply to 105205.1 

why is this such a shock?

we encourage foreign trade.

I remember hearing a Lewis Black bit that perfectly fit what the government needs to be doing.

Just find a s***y downtrodden place...like Detroit and just build "The Big F***in Thing"...and the economy will take off :-)

 
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From: moondust  Nov-6 4:16 pm 
To: mervmanva  (15 of 99) 
 105205.15 in reply to 105205.14 
This isn't about foreign trade chief. This is about the 10% unemployment rate and how the criminals in D.C. are using the taxpayers money with regard to the Economic Stimulus package. You and several others that have posted here either a., aren't that bright, or b., aren't paying attention. Please try to connect the dots and keep up. Are you happy with the results of the Stimulus package to date and how your tax dollars are being spent?
 
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From: mervmanva  Nov-6 4:30 pm 
To: moondust  (16 of 99) 
 105205.16 in reply to 105205.15 

I don't see how you can disconnect the 2.

Federal government decides to spend money to help the economy.

Texas decided to build windfarm.

We don't make anything here as a country.

We want to build something...so we have to go somewhere else to buy the pieces.

This is not a new model.

 
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From: Chris54s  Nov-6 4:49 pm 
To: EmCane  (17 of 99) 
 105205.17 in reply to 105205.7 

First off, what do you think happened to the GW tax cut? Think people only bought American with it?

Secondly, It's American companies teaming up some Chinese because we don't manufacture. Not that I am surprised a conservative is a little off on the facts.

http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/schumer-seeks-to-block-stimulus-funds-for-chinese-backed-texas-wind-farm/

"As Green Inc. reported last week, the $1.5 billion wind venture — announced by a coalition of American and Chinese companies " Last quarter to GW was positive, nothing like this crash which started before the election. Nice try. He was also handed less debt.

He lowered taxes, by adding 1.5 trillion in the debt, straight from China. He also spent like a drunken sailor, which he used to drive the economy a whopping 1.5% growth. Horrible. It got us here, so let's not listen to the people who caused this tell us how it should be.

The economy crashed during Bush's last term, that's what he handed over. Facts, sorry.

By the way, the period early in GW's administration, that's what you guys call the Clinton recession. Now it's, "Oh the Bush whining". Hypocrites.

 
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From: Chris54s  Nov-6 4:52 pm 
To: moondust  (18 of 99) 
 105205.18 in reply to 105205.10 

Tuesday's elections where there were two national seats, the Democrats won both, including one that has been Republican sine the civil war (the one that was not about Republican but conservatism, turned out to be a big loser). That Tuesday?

Didn't the election in 2008 mean anything to you?



Edited 11/6/2009 4:52 pm ET by Chris54s
 
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From: dcbird  Nov-6 6:04 pm 
To: moondust  (19 of 99) 
 105205.19 in reply to 105205.15 
450 million is a tiny drop in the bucket. The problem with the stimulus is that it hasn't been spent quickly enough; as was the complaint by many when it was signed.
 
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From: PHILLYTERP85  Nov-6 6:37 pm 
To: EmCane  (20 of 99) 
 105205.20 in reply to 105205.7 

Eh, I think the president gets way too much credit when things go good, and way too much blame when things go bad. He doesn't really affect things as much as some think in terms of the economy.

Ok so let's say we lowered tax rates instead of doing the stimulus package (and don't get me wrong, I would love me some lower tax rates), how in any way would that have any affect on the fact that big investment banks were in billions of debt due credit default swaps and taking bad bets on loans and packaging mortgages together and doing all the things that were a big reason why we are in this recession we are in now.

 
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