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From: Socius  9/15/2004 5:48 am 
To: ALL  (1 of 6) 
 592.1 

Millennialism is reference to the supposedly 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth, that is supposedly to end the present earth.  Millennialists develop much of their doctrines from the bokk of Revelation. The millennial reign is supposedly found in Rev 20.

One of the more popular theories in the evangelical church of the last 100 years is the Premillennial view. This is th ebelief that Jesus will return prior to the 1,000 years during which he will reign. There are various premill groups, in particular pretribulationists that simply state that the church will be raptured when Christ returns, at which point the antichrist will be revealed and a 7 year tribulation on earth will be in effect. After the 7 years Christ will return with the church ushering a glorious 1,000 year reign, at the end of which satan will be released to make his final onslaught but will be defeated. The return of Christ prior the 1,000 years is said to be found in Revelation 19. Millennialists are literalists (so they say) when it comes to understanding Revelation. They also are strong on the imminent return of Christ.

Many millennialists follow a pro-Israel foreign policy. It is important for the millennialists that Israel keeps its land for this is a testimony that Christ will return soon. Because of this millennialists are not helpful in the peace dialogue between Jews and Palestinians. They are strongly one sided. But what millennialists do not tell you is that the tribulation period concerns Israel. For millennialists Israel must survive in order to be persecuted (two-thirds must die during this period). But remember as they are being persecuted the church is not earth. It has been raptured.

So why do many millennialists support Israel? Their motivation is an hidden agenda. I have big problems with millennial views. I'm only touching the surface here. What do others think?

 
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From: Socius  9/15/2004 5:54 am 
To: Socius  (2 of 6) 
 592.2 in reply to 592.1 

What I will add here is one reason why I do not believe Revelation 19 talks of the physical return of Christ. To understand Rev 19 as being a description of the visible future 2nd advent of Christ seems to me to go beyond what the text says.

Nothing in Rev 19 clearly says that Christ comes DOWN to earth from heaven. First, it says “heaven opened” (v.11) indicating that John saw a vision (see 4:1). It does not say that heaven is opened for the purpose of Christ making his way down to earth. Also, the vision that John sees (of a rider and his white horse - v.11), has nothing that indicates that an advent is about to take place. To say so assumes too much. Neither does verse 14, which says, “the armies of heaven…were following him” prove that they were on their way down to earth. Again to say so one has to be read into it more than what it says.

Furthermore, verse 19 indicates that the opponents of the rider of the white horse were “gathered to make war against him.” At this point we must presume that this vision is still in “heaven” and has nothing to do with a visible 2nd advent. For who believes that when Christ returns his opponents are going to have enough time to gather an army ready to fight against his return? Especially if one considers that non-believers do not expect Christ to return, it appears strange that they will be capable of preparing a battle to prevent it. Also, it is more likely that at the coming of Christ, non-believers will fear so much, that they won’t be capable of preparing a battle against Christ. If John, a disciple of Christ, fell in fear as though dead when he saw a vision of him (1:17), how much more fear will Christ’s opponents have?

 

Therefore, I do not believe Rev 19 speaks of a future visible 2nd advent of Christ, as to say so goes beyond what chapter 19 says. If anything Rev 19 describes a spiritual battle between believers and non-believers here on earth, a battle in which Christ goes before us (19:14).

 
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From: DL_BERGHUIS1  9/17/2004 5:57 pm 
To: Socius  (3 of 6) 
 592.3 in reply to 592.1 
Socius---that is a fairly succinct statement of the Pre and post millenialist views. I have some problems with some people who suggest that Timothy LaHay and the left Behind stories are evangelical in nature...they believe in a rapture---catching up of the saved to heaven...but I am not sure that they can support that point of view from anything Christ said. Don Berghuis
 
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From: Socius  9/18/2004 4:47 am 
To: DL_BERGHUIS1  (4 of 6) 
 592.4 in reply to 592.3 

I was told of some churches that don't allow an interpretation other than pre-mill.

A friend told me that when he was at bible college he had to give a presentation on eschatology. The bible college was pre-tribulation, premillennialist (Dispensationalist) My friend is a post-tribulationist (which is still premillennial, bit not dispensational). He was told after the presentation that he was not to present anything again that spoke against a pre-tribulationist view.

 
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From: DL_BERGHUIS1  9/18/2004 5:00 pm 
To: Socius  (5 of 6) 
 592.5 in reply to 592.4 
Sad that some schools in this day and time still muzzle discussion. Kind of like the story I heard of the man who sent his son off to college and gave him a Bible, told the kid,"This is a good Bible, I scratched out all the Catholic verses in it.." Sad, since that took away a good bit of the Bible... and sad because the guy thought his kid couldn't handle intellectual discussion but was still old enough to go off to college. Don Berghuis
 
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From: hubbim  9/23/2004 3:41 pm 
To: DL_BERGHUIS1  (6 of 6) 
 592.6 in reply to 592.3 

They support that notion with passages like  1 Thess 4:15-17,   Matt 24:29-31, 24:36-42 among others.

 

 

 
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